Fantasy Attic

Computer Corner => Computer Help Section => Topic started by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 06:57:27 AM

Title: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 06:57:27 AM
Here we go with the story of the laptop.
For those who haven't seen the talk in the Coffee Shop, yesterday my laptop was opened with DS4 (and wasn't connected on the web). I was only on DS4 to save a pose in DS format.
I left maybe 2 minutes to do something, then when I was back, laptop freeze. I shutted it off, because I couldn't do by another way.
Then I restarted the laptop after 1 minute. Saw HP screen, the empty screen after... and nothing more.

My hard drive turns inside (regularly the light is shown). And I hear the laptop who search to continue its way. I wait 5, 10 minutes, the screen stays desperatly empty (kind of grey/black).

From yesterday, I found some manips to try, like one or other F button. No one works.
I tried ctrl+Alt+Supp . No change.
I tried the Windows button + B . Said like that, except a cligning screen, no change.

Then at midday, I found again the story of Windows button+B. But this time, I must click on buttons before to turn on, then keep a moment clicked buttons. And for the first time I saw the BIOS!  :yippee:
Well, in fact it's a process named "HP BIOS Update". It's seeking to "grab" an image of BIOS (first step 2048 something, then another step with same number). Laptop is ok with that, it seems it's a success. I have a black screen where I must click on Enter button - or not if I'm too slow.
But I'm back on the grey/black screen, and even after 10 minutes I have no change.

I tried several time this thing with HP Bios, and like it doesn't work well alone, I tried the F buttons. They always don't work.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 07:25:03 AM
First part with the 2 times 2048 blocks, I have this message (I shorted, with no red part)

"the system bios is being recovered. The recovery will take several minutes to complete.

Writing new bios image"

Then I have the "verifying new bios image".

After "system bios recovery is complete"

Then when the black screen with words, I have
"a system bios recovery has occured
BIOS recovery (500)

Enter - continue"

And I don't know why after.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 19, 2017, 07:29:14 AM
Hi Aelin,

so far I kept my mouth shut because too many cooks spoil the broth, but now that you made a thread of it perhaps I can contribute my 2¢ of cheap wisdom :winks:

What you say, in particular that you can see the HP screen and the BIOS, is sort of encouraging and would suggest that most of the hardware is still OK - with the possible exception of the hard disk, but on this point there's no saying until you have a working operating system.

If you cannot get the BIOS updated on line you probably can still download the latest BIOS for your laptop from another computer and then load it manually to your laptop via USB. [I've seen your update - you don't need this, your BIOS is already OK]

If you have access to a Windows PE (one that can boot from USB), that would be precious to further diagnose what's wrong with your computer. If you're lucky it could be just a faulty sector or a corrupted track on the HD. If you don't have Win PE send me a PM and we'll look together for a way out.
:thumb_up:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: McGrandpa on October 19, 2017, 08:02:01 AM
Wow, I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you are having Aelin. 

That you did get the BIOS screen seems to say the CPU and Video chip are working.  That it won't go on to boot Windows seems to say a controller chip or the HD has failed.   So not all is lost maybe?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 08:23:04 AM
 :shiv3: Hard disk is what I have more precious. Some things for job are onto, and I hadn't time to take them on the external.

I have nothing from Win PE, and I guess I must have a key for W8? Alas laptop has only what came with it in basic installation, I never bought elsewhere.

I read too it's possible issue came from RAM? But that asks to open laptop :panic: :thud:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 19, 2017, 08:34:16 AM
With a bit of luck most (if not all) of your files are still there and can be recovered by reading them and backing them up onto a new HD. With two bits of luck the only malfunctioning area is just a small section of the system.

Perhaps I can help with PE. Mail to chiron (at) chiron-scriba.com. Finding an installation disk for Win8 shouldn't be too difficult.

I wouldn't put my money on a DRAM fault but I cannot rule it out either. If it is, don't worry: there are zillions of things in the world worse than opening a laptop :smile:

P.S.: I live near Munich - if you're in France, almost 'round the corner.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 10:24:36 AM
One of last resort with Win PE (this will remove all of my hard drive or not?  :worried?: )

I have started again my comp, and this time I had something in the down left corner, before HP screen. I arrived on the BIOS, with all options, and a series of bip very long.
Impossible to use arrows, nor the Enter button.
And I'm back to the grey/black screen now.

It's alive, it's try to stay alive.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 10:28:40 AM
Standby guys!
I restarted again and F10 button. I took a photo, I must extract it. Wait a minute, even if I don't know if you can do something.
This time series of bip stopped
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 10:33:46 AM
Here it is
(yes, I haven't the "primary battery sn" inside)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 10:39:21 AM
In the BIOS tab "system configuration" I have

Language                      <ENGLISH>
Virtualization technology  <ENABLED>
Card reader power saving <ENABLED>
fan always on                  <ENABLED>
action keyw mode            <ENABLED>
usb3.0 configuration in Pre-OS <ENABLED>
Boot options

Then I have a lot of things in "boot options". First of all is "POST hotkey delay (dec)    <0>"
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 10:47:23 AM
Does the system configuration tab show the hard drive?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 10:49:00 AM
Or was what you wrote all that there is?

Does the log on that first page show you anything?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 10:49:06 AM
I don't think so, I wrote above all it shows. Maybe in "boot options"?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 10:50:18 AM
Yeah, in "boot options", I go in the down and just under "Legacy boot order" I have "notepad hard drive"
*******
EDIT: it's grey words, I can't go on
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 10:50:58 AM
It would be worth looking.  If one of the boot options lists something like a hard disk, things may be better.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 10:52:26 AM
Yeah, in "boot options", I go in the down and just under "Legacy boot order" I have "notepad hard drive"
*******
EDIT: it's grey words, I can't go on

That sounds like the HD is in trouble as Chiron thought.  But it likely means that the computer will boot.  Does it have a CD drive or USB ports?  (looks like USB ports from your screen shot.)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 10:56:24 AM
Sorry for the delay, I pass by somebody lese to extract photos of camera (I haven't install on the new pc)
I have that in "boot options"
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 11:01:00 AM
Timing is not a problem for me at the moment.  It's lunch time and my next appointment is in two hours.

Since it looks like it is configured to boot UEFI, you'll want to expand that OS boot manager item and see what it thinks is there.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 11:05:38 AM
If I click on the "OS Boot Manager", I stay on the same tab, buut I have a text in a frame

"Windows Boot Manager (TOSHIBA MQ01ABD075)   [I think it's 0 and not o]

Anyway, take time for you lunch also  :peek:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 19, 2017, 11:06:16 AM
One of last resort with Win PE (this will remove all of my hard drive or not?  :worried?: )
No, PE is harmless. It's just another OS that can boot from USB and then allows you to peek inside your hard drive(s) without altering anything unless you specifically want to.
The first thing to do would be, of course, to backup sector-by-sector your current HD onto a new healthy USB one - a nice safety net for just in case.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 11:16:25 AM
If I click on the "OS Boot Manager", I stay on the same tab, buut I have a text in a frame

"Windows Boot Manager (TOSHIBA MQ01ABD075)   [I think it's 0 and not o]

Anyway, take time for you lunch also  :peek:

So that tells us that the BIOS can see the hard disk (that's the model number and hopefully we won't need to know it).  And this means that it is at least alive enough to see that.  Good news!

I believe what Chiron is proposing may work.  The idea is that, using something like a USB key with a copy of another operating system on it (He's suggesting Windows PE), you would start that operating system and use it rather than Windows 8.1 to read the hard disk and save its data somewhere else.  Does the laptop have more than one USB port?

Lunch was a sandwich my wife had made for me.  I'm finished.   :thumb_up:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 19, 2017, 11:22:58 AM
Does the laptop have more than one USB port?
No need: the new HD can have a small partition for the OS and a large one for the backup, thus just one USB port would do. The backup can be as well an image file instead of a sector-by-sector.
Quote
Lunch was a sandwich my wife had made for me.  I'm finished.   :thumb_up:
Does your wife happen to know mine?  :(ROFLMAO:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 11:24:11 AM
So sandwich was delicious if it's your wife who made :winks:

Yes, I have 3 USB ports.
I saw somewhere I need a minimum key with 512MO, it's that?
I can remove stuff of one with 1Go.

I stay always with questions (but will probably make nothing more before tonight here):
- after that, computer will rework temporary, or more 'permanently'?
- otherwise will I be able to use hard disk to create an external, or is it too bad for that?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 11:34:14 AM
Does your wife happen to know mine?  :(ROFLMAO:

Could well be.  Eating anything more exotic at my desk would probably just cause trouble, however. 

So sandwich was delicious if it's your wife who made :winks:

Absolutely!  I see that you DO know her.   :iminnocent:

I'm going to step back and let Chiron describe the process he was considering.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 19, 2017, 11:34:31 AM
So sandwich was delicious if it's your wife who made :winks:

Yes, I have 3 USB ports.
I saw somewhere I need a minimum key with 512MO, it's that?
I can remove stuff of one with 1Go.

I stay always with questions (but will probably make nothing more before tonight here):
- after that, computer will rework temporary, or more 'permanently'?
- otherwise will I be able to use hard disk to create an external, or is it too bad for that?

If I get you right, and assuming that the problem really lies with the HD, it would be very risky to use that disk again. Just extract from it as much as possible, write on it "DO NOT USE" and then retire it in a drawer.
Of course this implies opening the laptop to replace the hard drive, but as I told you that's not as scary as you see it... :winks:

Uh, I forgot... no writing, deleting or moving data on the current disk! Nothing but reading it out, lest further data loss may occur if a directory area is involved in the problem.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 11:43:06 AM
Replace the hard drive is out of touch for the moment. But open the laptop for Windows PE? :panic: Please say me my brain starts to be out of function,and I haven't understand well.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 12:04:12 PM
Well, lunch time is over and I've got to get back to OpenStack, so apologies for saying I'm going to be quiet and then speaking.

Replace the hard drive is out of touch for the moment. But open the laptop for Windows PE? :panic: Please say me my brain starts to be out of function,and I haven't understand well.

As I have understood Chiron, he's proposing that you use a USB connected hard disk with Windows PE in one part and another data area on the same USB connected disk to save all of the data that is possible from the hard disk in the laptop.  So, to do the saving part, you should not have to open the laptop.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 19, 2017, 12:06:12 PM
Replace the hard drive is out of touch for the moment. But open the laptop for Windows PE? :panic: Please say me my brain starts to be out of function,and I haven't understand well.
No, your brain is OK, it's me the one who wasn't clear enough :smile:

- WinPE requires only an USB port and a working BIOS to tell the computer where it should boot from.
- Once PE is up and running, the contents of the HD can be copied onto another disk. Still no screwdriver.
- If the current HD proves defective, the copied contents should be secured elsewhere (any old crappy drive would do, if healthy): the OS installation could - and probably would - reformat it.
Here begins the screwdriver work:
- the old faulty HD has to be removed
- the new one (possibly same size, same manufacturer, same everything) should be mounted in the laptop.
End of the screwdriver phase.
- The OS (Win8) is now to be be reinstalled from scratch (a suitable installation DVD should be available for that)
- The application software has to be reinstalled.
- The secured files can now be copied back onto the newly installed HD and you'll live happily ever after  :Hi5:

Yes I know, it looks like a lot of work, but if everything runs smoothly it will hardly take longer than one day.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 01:38:08 PM
So screwdriver isn't for tomorrow, pfffew.
I looked a little on web for Win PE before the dinner, but I lost quickly my way. And the result is I totally don't know how that works.

Anyway, I'll send you a mail in the next minutes. Be ready to see "aelin" in the address.
 :ty01:

Oh, and my usb key is empty now. NOt formated. Not a problem?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 03:54:50 PM
I have a stupid question.
My computer worked under French language. Is it normal the Bios has a system configuration with English?  :ummm:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 03:59:17 PM
I have a stupid question.
My computer worked under French language. Is it normal the Bios has a system configuration with English?  :ummm:

Yes, I  believe so.  The US vendors buy the BIOS from a second company some of the time.  When they do, it is rare that they have a multilingual version.  If I recall from one of your screenshots, the BIOS was not an HP BIOS.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 04:00:30 PM
On the other hand, if I understood what you did to get it to start responding, you may have set it back to its most primitive state.

What's the model number?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 19, 2017, 04:02:11 PM
Yes, I think it's quite normal. The OS is highly configurable but the BIOS must cope with much less program memory, thus manufacturers tend to save on languages and other 'unnecessary' stuff.

And no, the question isn't stupid :winks:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 19, 2017, 04:06:15 PM
Ok, thanks guys!

What do you mean by "primitive state"? For BIOS only, or for all computer including hard drive?

For model number, wait I find a magnifying glass...
15-r103nf
I tried a search with that I don't remember when, but found nothing (but I guess the fact I'm sinking in everything isn't perceptible :psycho: Sorry, I need to laught a bit)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 19, 2017, 04:16:31 PM
Ok, thanks guys!

What do you mean by "primitive state"? For BIOS only, or for all computer including hard drive?

For model number, wait I find a magnifying glass...
15-r103nf
I tried a search with that I don't remember when, but found nothing (but I guess the fact I'm sinking in everything isn't perceptible :psycho: Sorry, I need to laught a bit)

So, it's an HP 15 Notebook PC.  You'll find more search hits if you use that.  The page (at least in the US) for it is:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-15-r100-notebook-pc-series/7234951/model/7649550/drivers (https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-15-r100-notebook-pc-series/7234951/model/7649550/drivers)

There are manuals in French, but, at a quick glance I cannot tell whether they have a French BIOS available.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 20, 2017, 05:22:20 AM

look on the bright side hun
once you get it fixed you'll have 2 comps
no more itchy fingers while waiting for a render to finish
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 06:50:46 AM
Fortunately, I fighted against itchy fingers taking a book :psycho: But for the moment it's impossible.
Anyway I know it's better indeed if I can save the comp. Specially if I save the W8.1 part  :witch2:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 20, 2017, 07:14:30 AM
Fortunately, I fighted against itchy fingers taking a book :psycho: But for the moment it's impossible.

Glad to hear that you've behaved responsibly.   :countmein:

Quote
Anyway I know it's better indeed if I can save the comp. Specially if I save the W8.1 part  :witch2:

You can probably find a restore disk to get W8.1 back on that computer  but that will involve saving the data to another disk, replacing the hard drive and restoring the data.  I believe what Chiron is proposing will only save your data from the presently not-working machine.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 07:45:19 AM
I know, but it's always a first step. My priority stays to bring back some datas in my hands.
For another disk, it will be when it will be possible, but not before months.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 20, 2017, 09:02:16 AM
Just out of curiosity: as you learned to loathe heartily Win10 in a few days, why don't you get hold of a Win8.1 installation DVD and install that on your new laptop?

Like this at least you might work in a familiar environment while you wait to see how much you can recover from your old system...
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 20, 2017, 09:15:58 AM

learn new
if we all saved old ............we still talking latin
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 09:28:43 AM
Just out of curiosity: as you learned to loathe heartily Win10 in a few days, why don't you get hold of a Win8.1 installation DVD and install that on your new laptop?

Like this at least you might work in a familiar environment while you wait to see how much you can recover from your old system...
Because for the moment they haven't W8 in stores, and for some reasons, I don't take things on the web.
I have a last shop to check, but here we crawl between W10 or W10. And a lot of Office stuffs.
(and until next month maybe more, money will be short).
If I have occasion to find a W8 or W8.1, I will be happy for sure. And before to do an install I'll come by here to ask advices :yes:


Latin was a great language for what I remember from school.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 20, 2017, 10:02:15 AM
learn new
if we all saved old ............we still talking latin

Of course you must learn the new thoroughly, it's the only way to decide advisedly if you want to keep it or...  :dustbin: :tearlaugh:

Yes, I tried conscientiously the brand new steam-powered MS-W10 car they put on the market lately. The one that every so often runs to the workshop on its own for repair without asking. The one that sends to the manufacturer everything about where you go, who steps in and when, how many red lights you run, and a lot of other things that will help improving the service. The one that will automatically kick out potentially untrusted passengers.
But unfortunately the old car stereo wouldn't fit in, nor would the DVD player, nor the good old navigator - however the baby seat would cause no problem.
Maybe had it been a little faster and had it allowed me to decide where to go, I'd have even bought one... but like this it occurred to me that perhaps I liked better my good old Ford XP on petrol and stayed with it.
Not because I didn't learn the new. Quite the opposite actually...  :grin:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 20, 2017, 10:08:00 AM

if u find an install disk for win 8 ........10 mins after loggin on u "prompted" to upgrade  to win 10
am afraid if u like it or not sooner or later u on win 10


sorry I had to do some latin at school etc ..............is awefull
change one word an whole line is wrong
worse then FRENCH even  :(ROFLMAO:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 10:29:56 AM
For my last year in Latin, yes it was worse than French. I never understood for why I lose it in 2 months :panic:

When I had the computer, it proposed in end of july of start of August to update toward W10. I refused, but the pack was between stuff downloaded on computer. And after the W10 pack was in standby on laptop, tada! McAffee temporary antivirus became a virus.
I cleaned everything, but yes, updates weren't the priority after that.

Advantage with W8 is you can choose when you update, and what you update at the end. Just with code names of packs, it could take more time on this party - but worth the case.
With W10, I can't choose if I want or not it check for updates. And that is one of the huge CPU problem.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 01:53:02 PM
Before dinner, I read a bit on after the boot with an USB; I found finally some topics with this kind of pictures (https://www.google.fr/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&biw=1366&bih=604&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=boot+windows+8&oq=boot+windows+8&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i19k1j0i5i30i19k1j0i8i30i19k1l7.25021.28390.0.30021.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1730.0j13.13.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.13.1721...0j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i30k1j0i5i30k1.0.q1_FPbnWK30)

Some people have the option of safe modeafter Parameters. Is it the way I could use if never... ?

I saw also a lot use in place the actualization of computer, but that remove applications from hard drive (and is only available if we have the installation CD?) :thud:  I guess that remove also all files inside runtimes of Poser and DS? I understood it will remove browser, which a bit annoying for preferences of sites, but I can do with that.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 20, 2017, 02:14:27 PM

Chiron is tryin to get all your stuff off disk before taking that step hun
just follow his help and we all cross our fingers for you
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 02:26:44 PM
I just want to take news on that before to go further, to be a little more ready when the moment will come. Imagine a sieve, and the needed time to fix the holes  :(ROFLMAO: I must enter a maximum in brain before everything.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 20, 2017, 02:31:28 PM
We're guessing that the physical disk or the electronics in the laptop's hard drive has started to fail or is failing.  For this reason, no software fix is likely to help. 

Under these circumstances, it's best to save the files from your computer before exploring other possibilities.  If we're wrong, then all that has been wasted is some time.  If we're right, at least you'll still have all of the files that were on the laptop.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 20, 2017, 02:38:44 PM
I just want to take news on that before to go further, to be a little more ready when the moment will come. Imagine a sieve, and the needed time to fix the holes  :(ROFLMAO: I must enter a maximum in brain before everything.

Ah, I see.  We're just trying to help you keep your work from being lost.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 02:53:21 PM
I know it's to help me.
It's just for the moment I don't understand how it's possible to reach files from that kind of 'blue screens'. Seems to me being a lot of "no trepassing" ways :panic: (fortunately it's not the case of our corridors to escape the nurse  :skellie: ).
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 20, 2017, 03:01:58 PM
Aelin, are you perhaps neglecting your mailbox? :smile:

I agree 101% with rrkknight3: the less you tamper with your (presumably) faulty laptop, the greater the chances to recover most or all of your files. "Ex falso sequitur omne" used to say St. Augustin (speaking of Latin... :winks:) - you never know what to expect of a computer gone nuts - it might as well extend the damage.

And once more in perfect synch with rrkknight3: sometimes the software can perform magic, I agree, but if a couple of times I saw a wrong software damage the hardware, I never, ever, saw one fix it. Of course you may try, but it is much safer if you wait until your data are safely duplicated on a healthy drive.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 20, 2017, 03:17:42 PM
I know it's to help me.
It's just for the moment I don't understand how it's possible to reach files from that kind of 'blue screens'. Seems to me being a lot of "no trepassing" ways :panic: (fortunately it's not the case of our corridors to escape the nurse  :skellie: ).

The trick that we're going to use is to start the laptop not from the hard disk inside the laptop case but from another storage device.  It is possible to have an operating system like Windows on a USB stick.  And it's possible to ask the laptop to start up from the USB stick.  That's what this Windows PE thing that Chiron is describing -- another Windows like system that will be able to read any data that is still readable from the laptop's hard disk.

I realize that having these explanations in English rather than French may be making it harder to understand.  I initially tried to translate it to French.  When I translated what I had back to English, it seemed like Backstroke of the West (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XziLNeFm1ok).  I had a good laugh but I don't think that it would have helped.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 20, 2017, 04:17:21 PM
Well, that's an idea: let's try in my rusty French - Aelin, please do the possible and the impossible to forgive me all those errors and to extract the meaning :smile:

Ç'est pas sûre lire tes fichiers avec un sistéme d'exploitation monté sur un disque dur compromis: il pourrait aggraver la situation et effacer encore plus de donées. Beucoup plus sûre serait-il les lire avec un autre sistéme d'exploitation indépendant, possiblement monté sur une clé USB, de façon qu'il ne faille pas de demontér le disque dur. Aussi on peut lire les donnée avec la CPU du laptop mais sans risque que le sistéme d'exploitation sur le disque dur compromis puisse faire quelquechose du mal.
IMO WinPE est précisément le systéme dont tu as besoin - le seul probléme est comme et d'oú le télechargér, mais j'ai eu une idée dont je t'ai écrit il y a quelques heures...

Er... forgive my French! :tearlaugh:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 20, 2017, 05:00:34 PM
French forgiven :winks: , like everybody here forgive to my English :psycho:

I know, I read your mail not far away. I saw tonight also the other laptop what I talked you. Identical finally, except of course it hasn't the same files that I made. So not so identical.

But with a hard drive damaged, and a new laptop which works barely with its W10, I'm not far away to give up everything. A part of what I have for job needs more than my new laptop can do (I don't talk of course of 3D, it's a lost hope). I made counts and I'm not ready to have money for an external, not to pay a W8.
And my present external will never be able to take in memory all the damaged HD can share - like it seems everything will come, even what I don't want save.
In fact, what I have discover with W10 it's a comp is only to serve like an object of decoration. Except maybe for big machines with many money.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 20, 2017, 05:12:26 PM
Chiron has gone to sleep as for both of you it's very late.  I can see how you feel trapped by circumstances, but I don't think you should give up.

Once we have a way to boot the old laptop, it's possible to select which files you want to copy a few at a time (as will fit on the device you already have) and put them on the new machine.

I'm pretty sure that with all of the Windows experience in the Attic we will be able to find a way to make W10 usable for you.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 20, 2017, 05:21:11 PM
French forgiven :winks: , like everybody here forgive to my English :psycho:
Thanks!

Quote
I know, I read your mail not far away. I saw tonight also the other laptop what I talked you. Identical finally, except of course it hasn't the same files that I made. So not so identical.
The software is not a problem, if the hardware is identical then you can 'transplant' the system - but I wouldn't do that before rescuing your files: the new system would certainly overwrite them. And if the current hard drive is faulty transplanting the system would do no good - in that case xou'd need a new drive. Not so tragic indeed, they are cheap enough.

Quote
But with a hard drive damaged, and a new laptop which works barely with its W10, I'm not far away to give up everything.

PLEASE DON'T!!! There is almost always another way out!
Quote
A part of what I have for job needs more than my new laptop can do (I don't talk of course of 3D, it's a lost hope). I made counts and I'm not ready to have money for an external, not to pay a W8.
You have a lot of friends that could volunteer something each, don't you? :smile:
Quote
And my present external will never be able to take in memory all the damaged HD can share - like it seems everything will come, even what I don't want save.
In fact, what I have discover with W10 it's a comp is only to serve like an object of decoration. Except maybe for big machines with many money.
No, you can chose the files you want to keep and discard the rest.
Yes, Win10 is mostly a decorative article - until you turn it on. Then it may become dangerous...

Mmm... bonne nuit...
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 21, 2017, 03:14:03 PM
Night was with some computers in the corner of dreams. Then a solution was ready to be found... and alarm clock came :thud:

I tried this afternoon to look with a USB bootable, not to go until the end (I knew where turn off safely), but to see if I have all options. Answer is no, I haven't the safe mode (I saw some other people with same issue). The 2 other solutions are formatting and lost everything which is unuseful of course; or continue to save datas and only datas not programs.
So comp was turned off quickly, and put in a corner for the moment.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 21, 2017, 03:32:59 PM
Night was with some computers in the corner of dreams. Then a solution was ready to be found... and alarm clock came :thud:

I tried this afternoon to look with a USB bootable, not to go until the end (I knew where turn off safely), but to see if I have all options. Answer is no, I haven't the safe mode (I saw some other people with same issue). The 2 other solutions are formatting and lost everything which is unuseful of course; or continue to save datas and only datas not programs.
So comp was turned off quickly, and put in a corner for the moment.

Your computer can use a bootable USB key.  See the attached image.  This BIOS configuration entry would be selected when booting from the USB key was tried.

BUT ... the first step would be to create a bootable USB key with a program running on your W10 system that you could use to boot the W8.1 system.  The one that Chiron was proposing was for this purpose, I'll bet.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 21, 2017, 04:18:53 PM
Yes with a bootable USB (made from the W8.1 laptop from friend) I went in the BIOS, I changed first the order that just after the OS BOOT Manager (I thought it was important that one stayed in the same place, like a non movable chief). Of course, that hadn't worked.
So I changed again the order, and that time I saw different options after. But where I must find the possibily of safe mode, I haven't advanced options. It's just non existent. I don't know if it's because the health of disk, or if it's because it's just W8.1 installed with computer at the beginning (and consequently no key).
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 21, 2017, 04:29:39 PM
Are you booting the system that Chiron provided?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 21, 2017, 04:38:12 PM
You don't need to tamper with the boot order: there should be a function key to make the BIOS (or UEFI) offer you a list of the available drives (USB and CD drives included) from where you can chose where to boot from. On my PC it's F11.

The protected mode is something that implies the use of your not really healthy Win8.1 mounted on a dubious hard disk, thus it would be safer to leave it alone.
If you manage to boot from USB you'll find yourself in another system, certainly less familiar to you but safe, from where you can see whatever is still accessible on your hard disk, chose what you want to save and copy it where you want it (but not - repeat NOT - on the unsafe hard disk!).
Working with an external system will assure that no further loss of data will occur due to a system failure, which at the moment looks to me the greatest risk.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 21, 2017, 05:02:36 PM
I think on HP systems, one presses ESC repeatedly during the system power up, then F9 to get the boot option menus.

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-15-r100-notebook-pc-series/7234951/model/7649550/document/c03801890 (https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-15-r100-notebook-pc-series/7234951/model/7649550/document/c03801890)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 11:22:52 AM
I checked, alas none of these options were useful for the situation.

I turned on web, between french sites and howtogeek (thanks to each people talking to this one to me). And a solution finally was presented partially with "Ubuntu" name - in relation with Linux. I turned many yesterday on that one. Stubborn I know, but I wanted to put aside that definitively if it wasn't good.
I was again in struggle, because I had a lot of pages to follow for following the other pages :hypno:
I reinstalled 3 times folders on the bootable USB. Finally I hadn't offered enough 'place' to Ubuntu to deal with its system, 'open' Windows areas, and open an USB (yes, I didn't want to expose the external directly).

I hadn't idea how many Gigas of files I had to take, but it's a lot :panic:
After, I don't know their real statut. I'll see that when I'll open files finally.

I think I have maybe lost some things, like photos (they were in the Public area). But it's a little issue compare to all is maybe saved.
I have to check also if I can find preferences for Firefox - in case I want to continue to give news of the Aelin Weather Channel for example :iminnocent:

 :ty04: again!
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 11:40:07 AM
Rectification: usually I could go on Public area by several paths. In Ubuntu, it's transformed in a labyrinth, were finally I found my way  :grimdance: Photos are ok too.

Looks like everything can be there.
Just the stupid W8.1 which had an issue.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 23, 2017, 11:42:37 AM
Ubuntu is quite OK, Aelin, it just requires a bit of patience to get started.
And it was a good idea to save your data on a different USB - should anything go wrong you wouldn't have to start all over again.

Are you recovering your files one by one or collectively (by extension, by folder or whatever)?

We are all keeping our fingers crossed for you :smile: Congratulations on your stubbornness! :thumb_up:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 23, 2017, 12:05:14 PM

well done


ps if Chiron hadn't suggested win PE I woulda been saying use Linux


hope you get it all running again as soon as you can
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on October 23, 2017, 01:09:42 PM
That is wonderful news Aelin......Wooohoooo. 
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 01:39:41 PM
Ubuntu is quite OK, Aelin, it just requires a bit of patience to get started.
And it was a good idea to save your data on a different USB - should anything go wrong you wouldn't have to start all over again.

Are you recovering your files one by one or collectively (by extension, by folder or whatever)?

We are all keeping our fingers crossed for you :smile: Congratulations on your stubbornness! :thumb_up:
Thanks!
Tonight or tomorrow, I'll try to redo my path to use Ubuntu, to explain the few I understood. It will be in another topic.

Concerning files, I saw 3 photos outside of folders in the PUblic area - like I left them. I saw the 3 thumbnails correctly. For those it's ok, and I took them like that.
I took by files all I could in other areas.
But mainly, I took by folders (sometimes by folders in folders, to divide the work in several times for laptop and flash drives).

Question now: I know hard drive isn't pretty good. But do you think I can try a 'reinstallation' of the laptop as when leaving the factory, then just reinstall Daz and Poser? I doubt just "to do a fix" is enough.
I know I can't take the risk to save things onto now, but maybe I can with flash drives.
That could allow for a moment to don't use my W10 comp to do 3D. Just to go on the web, or make postwork.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 02:09:07 PM
Pictures and some written documents I kept for FRM are always complete. They come from a folder contening folders (and it was one of 2 first I took earlier).  :knightcheer2:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 23, 2017, 02:29:23 PM
Question now: I know hard drive isn't pretty good. But do you think I can try a 'reinstallation' of the laptop as when leaving the factory, then just reinstall Daz and Poser? I doubt just "to do a fix" is enough.
I know I can't take the risk to save things onto now, but maybe I can with flash drives.
That could allow for a moment to don't use my W10 comp to do 3D. Just to go on the web, or make postwork.

Hmmm, better wait until the last of your files is safely copied onto an USB or an external disk - first things first, right?

Then to carry on a reinstallation you will need two things: a healthy hard drive and a source for the system that you want to reinstall, be it an installation DVD or an image borrowed from the identical (hardwarewise) laptop you told me about.

- Healthy hard disk: it is possible (though not very likely) that the catastrophe happened for other causes than a hard disk failure (maybe a software problem that erased a few key-sectors, who knows?). Thus before reinstalling on the same disk you should first run a thorough hard disk test - there are several free programs to do that. If the disk passes the test OK, else you'll need a new one (1 TB -> ~€60) and some screwdriver work (not really much *).

- System source: a 'system recovery' would require anyway a Win8.1 installation DVD. If (or when :winks:) you have one, you must decide if you want to try a system recovery or to go for a clean installation from scratch, disk formatting included. Personally I would opt for the latter, but it's a matter of taste.

*) If you find a safe way to send me your laptop I'd be happy to volunteer the screwdriver work and maybe also the hard disk - I might have a spare one somewhere :smile:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: mtdana on October 23, 2017, 02:51:33 PM
Sorry your laptop went bad Aelin  :ghost: . Glad you found a solution to recover files - and I'll cross my fingers it wasn't a hardware problem and you will be able to reinstall !!! :knightcheer2:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on October 23, 2017, 02:58:43 PM
I agree...gather up all you can including program downloads and save them on the MemSticks or External. 

I keep a copy of programs that I download on One Drive also.  Makes for a good backup.   

Then start your tinkering.....
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 03:18:53 PM
I don't want to touch the hard disk for the moment, like I'm not 100% sure I took everything. I must think on that, don't worry.

I saved DS, Poser, PD Artists... not installed (and for a part installed in programs with add-ons or runtimes) on the external. And several USB.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 03:20:54 PM
On another topic, this of W10 maybe.
I made change in Firefox to don't allow it to keep my passwords. THat's ok.

But weirdly when I enter my IDS, or comments on the gallery, computer remember what I wrote before :panic: An idea to stop that? I'm not able to find.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on October 23, 2017, 03:38:06 PM
Have you adjusted any of your Win 10 settings yet?  First thing I do after each update is to make sure they haven't turned on anything I've shut off. 

I'll look to see what I have set up but in the meantime get familiar with Win 10 settings.  There are many you can shut off without doing any harm to your system.  And of course some they won't allow you to shut off LOL....
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 03:44:05 PM
Normally yes I adjusted all I can in W10, but maybe I missed an area. I'm not able to find anything in parameters, but it's a huge place of 'rooms in rooms in rooms...' :hypno:
I shutted off a lot options (first of them the backgrounds applications I don't use, I think all of them :psycho: ), and what I missed to shut down, W10 Privacy proposed me with a color code to say if it was pretty safe or not to do that.
Apparently stop to look my ID wasn't in shutted down options :thud:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 23, 2017, 04:15:53 PM
Some web sites use cookies to record that you have logged in.  Is that possible in this circumstance?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on October 23, 2017, 04:20:59 PM
See if this helps you with the settings:  Privacy Settings~CNet (https://www.cnet.com/how-to/5-privacy-settings-to-change-in-windows-10/)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 04:24:06 PM
Maybe, but it's the first time Fantasy Attic remembers my ID, then what are my comments in the gallery :thud:
I don't talk of sites like Deviantart or Daz3d.
And I always opted for a clean of cookies after all end of session. I guess it's not enough now  :ummm:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 23, 2017, 04:28:49 PM
I think, then, it's more what TL has pointed to -- it's some "feature" of W10 that's doing it.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PM
So you have also Cnet for English people? I didn't know :hypno:

Between all possibilities, I might disabled one - don't remember which was. But it was pretty 'invisible' until now lol
For the moment like I'm connected, I see no change. I'll make a Ccleaner passage tonight, then see tomorrow what will be do after by FF. Thanks.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on October 23, 2017, 04:51:54 PM
So you have also Cnet for English people? I didn't know :hypno:


I do a lot of Net Traveling to find the answers I want to hear  :tearlaugh: :tearlaugh:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 24, 2017, 08:01:44 AM
Well that didn't work, ID are already back :thud:
So it will stay a mystery :panic:

***********
EDIT:
I have resintalled in AppData/Roaming my profil for Firefox, with my preferences and my historic from my other comp. Problem solved even if I have exactly the same options for broswer  :explode:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on October 24, 2017, 04:53:46 PM
LOL..... We leave you alone for one minute....and you solve the problem.....Way to go Aelin.... :grimdance:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 24, 2017, 05:09:04 PM
Great to hear that you're taming the beast!
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 24, 2017, 05:15:59 PM
Yeah, I need this little yellow guy here! (http://thefantasiesattic.net/attic/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17540.0;attach=17119;image)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 27, 2017, 10:24:54 AM
Ok, I have opened on new computer a scene in DS3 (character with few clothes) and I haven't move in the program. Result: CPU at 100% :thud:  :explode: :tooey:
Even after one minute, no change, so program is closed.
I had high CPU for a moment with Vista or W8.1, but never like that and permanently just for a scene.
If it's the case for DS3, it's impossible to install and use Poser. And completly useless for DS4.

So for the moment if I want to continue 3D, no matter the state of disk in the other computer, I have to deal with.

I won't touch anything before the next week.
So what I need to try to 'reinstall' PC in the state of origin? Just the bootable USB for Windows 8.1?
If I must do an image of the 'identical computer', can I do that on my external disk, without lost my files already on? (I know it's the case for bootable, so I wonder for image of system)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: mtdana on October 27, 2017, 10:56:17 AM
Hi Aelin,
Sometimes I have scenes take long time to load, then next time same scene is fast. :ghost:


But check on render tab if DS is set for IRAY - change to 3Delight.



Also check how much RAM your new PC has and post it here.


Even with 3Delight video card can be issue on new computer - if it is a desktop consider a future update to new video card.
Good luck




 
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 27, 2017, 11:54:15 AM
I use Daz Studio 3, not DS4 - I know too much how DS4 eat a computer (even without iray). I'm not ready to open again a DS4 by the way, like it was in action when the previous computer crashed.
I loaded same scene twice, the second time 1 hour after the first. Each time computer can't do anything, CPU is crazy. But with a computer which can't stay more than few minutes on youtube because fan is quickly in action and cpu is high, it's not a surprise. First time I have this issue, never had with Vista nor W8.

Nope, I guess own a computer with W10 is just a wasting time. It's mainly the same computer (HP, notebook, etc...) than previous but the difference is it's a W10 now - no choice. W10 is a mess - thank you M$!
I can't upgrade anything like it's a new computer, and I can't take more in new technologies for a long time. I took what I could taken, but even the bigger wasn't better; Acer? No, thanks.

At the end, I'm just blocked, turning around web for nothing. And sometimes just do that isn't in the taste of W10.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 27, 2017, 12:33:20 PM

please say your specs hun ....cpu ram etc


it maybe you have bought a "lemon" but with the time/financial constraints
you was under I cant blame you
you say its same as old one but u didn't want to upgrade that old one ;-) to win 10
.....just saying


but maybe we can add ram or use a readyboost ramstick ........fiddle with your settings
the more you tell us the better the advice you get !!


ps if u don't know readyboost is using a memory stick as spare ram (for page file)
is NOT as fast as real ram .........but quicker then hard drive
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/is-readyboost-still-an-effective-tool-in-windows-10/
will tell you more


don't give up yet  :feelgood: we are here to help


Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 27, 2017, 02:00:52 PM
Ok, I have opened on new computer a scene in DS3 (character with few clothes) and I haven't move in the program. Result: CPU at 100% :thud: :explode: :tooey:
Even after one minute, no change, so program is closed.
I had high CPU for a moment with Vista or W8.1, but never like that and permanently just for a scene.
If it's the case for DS3, it's impossible to install and use Poser. And completly useless for DS4.

So for the moment if I want to continue 3D, no matter the state of disk in the other computer, I have to deal with.

I won't touch anything before the next week.
So what I need to try to 'reinstall' PC in the state of origin? Just the bootable USB for Windows 8.1?
If I must do an image of the 'identical computer', can I do that on my external disk, without lost my files already on? (I know it's the case for bootable, so I wonder for image of system)

Hi Aelin,

sorry for answering you this late, I had a very busy afternoon.

Yes, I think you're right: I'm afraid that at M$ they forgot who is the master and who is the slave, so now the operating system is the master and takes the lion's share of the system resources - a little like bureaucracy in a totalitarian state: it's the citizen at their service instead of the other way around as it should be. Bah, whatever. I find your decision to turn back to Win8.1 perfectly understandable.

I assume that you already have copy of all the files you want to keep, and that those copies are all verified. The latter part is important because if a copy contains an error and you overwrite the only source you have, that file is gone forever. So if you aren't sure I would recommend (and insist) that you make sure before proceeding.

If I read you right you intend to re-install Win 8.1 on the disk currently mounted in your old laptop - the one that could have been the cause of the problem. There are two possibilities: either you take the risk and pretend that the disk is healthy, or you run a thorough disk check before getting started. I would recommend the latter because else you might find out too late (after wasting all the time it takes to install a system) that the situation is the same as before (i.e., the system doesn't work) - or, even worse, the problem could reappear once you have already begun to trust the freshly reinstalled system. If you browse the web for "hard disk check" you should find several HD-check programs for free - try at MajorGeeks.com, they use to have pretty good free stuff and they explain you how to use it.

Now, where comes the 'new' Win8.1 from? As far as I know (I have very little experience with Win8.1) it is meant to be installed from a DVD, but installing it from a specifically prepared USB should also work. If you don't already have the USB it would be better to get a DVD (more official, less potential problems) - but it costs dear money. A way around would be to buy a much cheaper downloadable version in ISO format and then burn it yourself onto a DVD - just make as sure as possible that the source is reliable.

I hope this will help you a little. Should you have further questions, just ask - and with a bit of luck you'll get an answer from someone who knows Win8.1 better than me :smile:

Crossing my fingers for you  :thumb_up: :winks:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 27, 2017, 02:20:48 PM

like to say here I'm looking at getting the working one working well enough for you to work
Chiron is looking to repair old one with win 8


any win 8 dvd will do (or iso) so long as you have serial number
in an ideal world you should have "rescue disks" you made when getting comp
but any disk will do lol so long as u have number
beware of getting an iso off a "warez" site .............is will have some sort of trojan built in
if you cant borrow a disk off a friend but find one online ask us before you download  :java:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: mtdana on October 27, 2017, 02:49:37 PM
I use Daz Studio 3, not DS4 - I know too much how DS4 eat a computer (even without iray). I'm not ready to open again a DS4 by the way, like it was in action when the previous computer crashed.
I loaded same scene twice, the second time 1 hour after the first. Each time computer can't do anything, CPU is crazy. But with a computer which can't stay more than few minutes on youtube because fan is quickly in action and cpu is high, it's not a surprise. First time I have this issue, never had with Vista nor W8.
Sounds to me like video on new computer is too weak, your old laptop had Nvidia - right?. Some PCs are only good for web and email, ok  if that is all you do. Any chance to exchange it for one with better specs? I hope I'm wrong but I don't think W8 will fix all the slowness.
Good Luck!!!!
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 27, 2017, 03:39:33 PM

If I must do an image of the 'identical computer', can I do that on my external disk, without lost my files already on? (I know it's the case for bootable, so I wonder for image of system)

Opps sorry, I forgot that part.

Yes, if you have enough space on your external disk there is no problem: the image is just a file and if it's created with a serious software it won't ovrwrite anything else. Just keep in mind that the image-file, though compressed to some extent, is going to be pretty large anyway, as it will bring along the whole contents of the 'twin' computer - it must contain much more than the visible files, stuff like boot sector, partition table and so on, and you can seldom choose which files you want to take and which ones you want to leave.
This means that once you transfer the image onto your old laptop you'll have to delete plenty of stuff that you don't want there.

Another point is that the two computers must be really identical for all that concerns the hardware: if the other one has a different hard drive, for instance, once on your laptop the new OS won't be able to read the hard disk.

Thus I'd rather use this solution only as a last resort, if all the rest fails.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 27, 2017, 03:47:22 PM
like to say here I'm looking at getting the working one working well enough for you to work
Chiron is looking to repair old one with win 8
Just elementary arithmetics, my dear Watson: if the hardware worked fine on Win7 and now is sweating and snorting and panting on Win10, who kidnapped the difference? :tearlaugh:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on October 27, 2017, 04:07:22 PM
Just a thought Aelin....  Is this a NEW HP Laptop?  If so, have you tried going to their support page?

About a year ago my Brother got a HP Laptop that came with Win 10....he was use to Win 8 and went to the HP site and they did have a download to switch from 10 to 8.  It took him a long time go do this but it wiped all Win 10 items off the board and loaded up Win 8.  Don't know if they still offer that.  I would check for you but they require Model No and Serial Number for looking it up.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Jherrith on October 27, 2017, 04:08:54 PM
thelufias ?

:tearlaugh:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 27, 2017, 04:40:08 PM
Hi Aelin,

sorry for answering you this late, I had a very busy afternoon.

[...]

I assume that you already have copy of all the files you want to keep, and that those copies are all verified. The latter part is important because if a copy contains an error and you overwrite the only source you have, that file is gone forever. So if you aren't sure I would recommend (and insist) that you make sure before proceeding.

If I read you right you intend to re-install Win 8.1 on the disk currently mounted in your old laptop - the one that could have been the cause of the problem. There are two possibilities: either you take the risk and pretend that the disk is healthy, or you run a thorough disk check before getting started. I would recommend the latter because else you might find out too late (after wasting all the time it takes to install a system) that the situation is the same as before (i.e., the system doesn't work) - or, even worse, the problem could reappear once you have already begun to trust the freshly reinstalled system. If you browse the web for "hard disk check" you should find several HD-check programs for free - try at MajorGeeks.com, they use to have pretty good free stuff and they explain you how to use it.

Now, where comes the 'new' Win8.1 from? As far as I know (I have very little experience with Win8.1) it is meant to be installed from a DVD, but installing it from a specifically prepared USB should also work. If you don't already have the USB it would be better to get a DVD (more official, less potential problems) - but it costs dear money. A way around would be to buy a much cheaper downloadable version in ISO format and then burn it yourself onto a DVD - just make as sure as possible that the source is reliable.

I hope this will help you a little. Should you have further questions, just ask - and with a bit of luck you'll get an answer from someone who knows Win8.1 better than me :smile:

Crossing my fingers for you  :thumb_up: :winks:
Don't worry, like I said, I want not to do that before the next week. Besides problems with computer I had a bad news today, and I really haven't the head to try something.
Yes files aren't comprised until now. I can't check everything (DS, Poser), but the bright side is I have 99% of folders on external.
Like I said, I haven't other disk. And I'm not ready to have another one. And with W10 mess, the disk inside the other computer is my only solution. When I had VIsta, if I knew it was possible to keep disk of computer, believe me, I always had that one - not the case :thud: But now, I won't trust 100% the disk, it's just to work with 3D until it works no more. No save on, but on an USB specially for that - I'm doing "clean" between triple (or more) saved folders :thud:

Like I buy nothing on line, no risk I take like that a bad version of W8.1. And no one is in the town, like that, it's settled  :explode:  My only solution stays the image of 'similar'.
So if a computer uses (I don't know for the moment for my case) 150Mo on the memory, image will be compressed?

Just a thought Aelin....  Is this a NEW HP Laptop?  If so, have you tried going to their support page?

About a year ago my Brother got a HP Laptop that came with Win 10....he was use to Win 8 and went to the HP site and they did have a download to switch from 10 to 8.  It took him a long time go do this but it wiped all Win 10 items off the board and loaded up Win 8.  Don't know if they still offer that.  I would check for you but they require Model No and Serial Number for looking it up.

It's a new yes, and all these days looking for solutions on their site don't give me the taste to suscribe for a solution. When you have people saying that their new computer (just exited of the box) under W10 has too much CPU and/or memory used, and the only solution of HP is "restauration system"...

Mtdana, if I'm back to shop, they won't accepted to exchange for another. I bought, computer works, it's not their problem if I can't use it even for listen youtube. If I want another? I have choice between Acer, Acer or Acer. That's all. And minimum the double of this I took. And of course, I must pay totally for a new.
Anyway, each time you go in a shop here, no matter what you do with a computer they try to bring you under the worth computer.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on October 28, 2017, 05:01:52 AM

try the ready boost trick on the win 10 machine hun
it will help a little and I'm happy to pop a 4 gig ram stick in post for you
its sat in a box collecting dust lol I don't use it



Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 28, 2017, 05:25:55 AM
[...] So if a computer uses (I don't know for the moment for my case) 150Mo on the memory, image will be compressed? [...]

Tha depends on what software you use to make (and then to restore) the image, but generally yes. Still it's pretty hard to predict by how much the image will be compressed - some files (.txt, .doc etc.) can be compressed very effectively, others (.jpg, .cab etc.) much less.

One possible solution would be to save the bulkiest unnecessary files of the 'donor' computer on an external medium, delete them temporarily, make the image and then restore them. This would certainly provide a smaller image file.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 28, 2017, 07:36:07 AM
In my experience that sort of slowdown is because the program is trying to use more "memory" than it should.  This term "memory" has several meanings.  Here I'm talking about the short term, program memory, not the amount of disk. 

Compression will help on the disk, but not in the program memory.  To make a render the program has to be able to see the pixels that make up the .jpg or .png.  So, it must uncompress the .jpg or .png to get the pixels.

An experiment that may be worth trying on the W10 computer: can you render a primitive cube?

Do you know about the Resource Monitor?  I'm assuming that you're using it but, just in case, you can run it with Windows-R and then type resmon.  Or however you run specific program names.  The Memory tab should show how much of the Physical Memory (program memory in my sentence above) is being used.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on October 28, 2017, 07:48:17 AM
Aww...  "image" is a tricky word!

Is Aelin talking of a disk-image (as in 'a file mirroring the whole disk contents, meant to restore or transfer it'), or of a plain .bmp, .tga, .jpg image that can be processed and displayed on a screen?  :ummm:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 28, 2017, 07:52:51 AM
I'll certainly let her speak for herself.

I'm wondering about how the new computer stalls when even showing YouTube and rendering a simple scene.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 28, 2017, 08:06:21 AM
Look youtube, my record was 15 minutes non stop.
Load a V4 and do a render without lights, it was possible like test.
But when I have loaded yesterday a scene of V4 with clothes, comp didn't like that :thud:


I talked well of the image of computer, not our usual jpg, png...

I have another question, because I didn't think until now. What is the point of Recovery (:D) 'disk' in a computer? If it's the restauration at the beginning of computer, maybe can I use it?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on October 28, 2017, 08:23:50 AM
Recovery disks usually mean disks that will take the computer back to its original manufacturer's state.  That is, the condition of the machine at the point where the box was first opened.  Without any of your data, however!

Do you have one for your W8.1 system?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on October 28, 2017, 08:41:20 AM
Yes, normally I have one, I remember it was shown when I looked "This PC"; like for the W10 in fact (and like had Vista). I don't remember the number of Go that was already used. But something like 2Go was always 'available' (and no, I never touch that part of computer).

I don't care to reinstall just what I need in programs now I have grabbed my preferences in Firefox - I had a lot of links I never put on a document. Programs are aside on external (zips or executables) so I can take what I need.
Anyway, I know now I can't avoid to reinstall stuff.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 02, 2017, 02:54:11 PM
I haven't touch the W8.1 for the moment - and won't touch tonight like I don't know how many time it will ask.

So I have just to use the bootable Windows USB, then the tools in options, like on those screen captures (https://www.google.fr/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&biw=1366&bih=604&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=boot+windows+8&oq=boot+windows+8&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i19k1j0i5i30i19k1j0i8i30i19k1l7.25021.28390.0.30021.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1730.0j13.13.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.13.1721...0j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i30k1j0i5i30k1.0.q1_FPbnWK30) ? Then I choose "troubleshoot", "reset your pc", it's that?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 02, 2017, 03:17:35 PM
Now that you're sure that all your valuable data are safe elsewhere, I daresay it's worth a try. The "Advanced options / system restore" looks quite promising indeed.
But, as already said, I'm no Win8 specialist.

Sir Knight?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 02, 2017, 03:31:53 PM
I'm not a specialist at all. We do a great team like that  :(ROFLMAO:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 02, 2017, 05:32:23 PM
So, let's make some things clear. 

I use Linux almost exclusively.  I have two Windows 7 machines that are here strictly for running Poser, DAZ Studio and other mainly Windows programs like Photoshop.  The older one is always turned off unless I want to get a file from it.

When Aelin reported that she was trying to get her system operational, I googled for the HP directions on what to do for her specific laptop.  I have no experience with W8 or W8.1 other than recovering my wife's crashed W8 system by using a Dell re-installation disk, followed by a recovery from Acronis backup.

I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing.  Is the recovery disk an HP provided system recovery disk or is it a recovery drive in this sense:

Microsoft Create USB Recovery Drive (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17422/windows-8-create-usb-recovery-drive)

(sorry for responding so late in your and Chiron's day -- long day at work.)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 02, 2017, 05:52:51 PM
I haven't touch the W8.1 for the moment - and won't touch tonight like I don't know how many time it will ask.

So I have just to use the bootable Windows USB, then the tools in options, like on those screen captures (https://www.google.fr/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&biw=1366&bih=604&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=boot+windows+8&oq=boot+windows+8&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i19k1j0i5i30i19k1j0i8i30i19k1l7.25021.28390.0.30021.14.14.0.0.0.0.145.1730.0j13.13.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.13.1721...0j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i30k1j0i5i30k1.0.q1_FPbnWK30) ? Then I choose "troubleshoot", "reset your pc", it's that?

And if the recovery disk is the second one mentioned in my previous post -- the answer is "yes", although there will be a few more questions before it actually starts doing the reset.  This is Microsoft, after all.

Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 02, 2017, 06:11:30 PM
No problem on the timing of answer, I asked late already. And it's a crazy week with Halloween 'party', so I wanted not ask earlier in the week.

I have already a bootable USB :yes: That is the only way I have to move ahead after the HP screen. Otherwise, I stay with the grey/black screen after.
I guess the Recovery (D) is the hp disk, yes. All I know is it's somewhere in the machine, shown between disks when comp is turned on and works normally.

More questions during the process? :panic:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 02, 2017, 06:33:06 PM
The recovery partition is part of the possibly failing hard drive.  I'm guessing that you did not make a specific recovery usb drive, but are planning on using the one in the machine.  Is that so?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 08:23:56 AM
Indeed, no recovery USB at the house. It seems with the bootable I can touch the options for recovery, repare... but it's all. I can't start a session.

Otherwise, during my last raid around W8.1 comp, I wanted to take some files of DS4 on a USB, to put them on external later. It appeared some files of DS4 are like corrupted... and DS4 was the program in action when the laptop has frozen :panic:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 08:35:43 AM
Let's try this (from the HP website):

"Can you start HP Recovery manager for Windows 8 on your notebook computer by pressing F11 after power on?"

If it does, remember whether the screen is light colored or dark colored.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 08:44:20 AM
Clicking on F11 I have a message:

"No bootable device --insert boot disk and press any key".

I guess it wants to I add the bootable USB
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 08:49:05 AM
With bootable key, and almost 1 minute on HP screen, I have a ble screen, with just an arrow cursor.

WAit. I have choosen language. I'm for keyboard position
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 08:51:00 AM
I have 2 options now:

-Dépannage / Troubleshoot (I think in English)
- Shut down computer

It was slow to go in troubleshoot. I clicked several times. Now, I'm back to a blue screen. I don't know what to so womputer for now.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 08:54:08 AM
Laptop wanted to actualize Windows, but he said the reader was locked.
I canceled.

(sorry for the number of messages I do following today)

*********
I'm back in "troubleshoot" options.

I can:
- actualize the computer (probably what came earlier :thud: )
- reinitialize it from the beginning
- HP recovery Manager
- system options (with restauration system between options, to do from a restauration point, but I guess it's not the better option).
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 09:21:45 AM
I'm sorry.  I'm at work and there are interruptions.

You want HP Recovery Manager
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 09:25:43 AM
At this hour in US, I know, don't worry.
Ok, I launch it, and I have several possibilities. I launch too System restauration.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 09:27:20 AM
I have possibility to save my files? Do I try?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 09:31:28 AM
What exactly is the question it is asking?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 09:34:32 AM
It explains to me it will be back to the beginning of computer, and that all files created after I bought it will be lost.
I have choice:

- to save files (recommanded it said)
- to restaure without saving files.

It doesn't give alarm.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 09:37:08 AM
Are there files that you have not been able to get with the bootable USB that you know are still there that you want? 

I feel like you've already saved all that is savable from the machine.  If that is so, I would just let it restore.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 09:40:20 AM
Yes I took everything I wanted, including in AppData and other "hidden" folders.
Ok, I do a direct restauration.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 03, 2017, 09:44:39 AM
It explains to me it will be back to the beginning of computer, and that all files created after I bought it will be lost.
I have choice:

- to save files (recommanded it said)
- to restaure without saving files.

It doesn't give alarm.
Now that's a bit of guesswork: does it mean saving the files (in some backup folder, for further use) or to restore them where they are supposed to be?

However I agree with Sir Knight: as you have a backup of everything you could squeeze out of the old disk, a clean re-installation would look way better to me too.

See if it offers you the option to scan the disk for errors first. We are not sure that the hard disk is really compromised, perhaps it was just a severe software glitch, thus knowing that the HD is OK would be some relief...
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 09:54:59 AM
I saw your message just before to launch. Estimate time for disk C test => 30:25 minutes  34:20  :thud:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 03, 2017, 10:06:34 AM
Sit down and relax: if the test finds no errors it's the best invested half-an-hour of your life :smile:

:thumb_up: !!!
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 10:12:40 AM
It's just teh first step, and now it indicates 1h31mn05 :OMG:
After, I know it can be faster suddenly

 :doc:
I have 3 segments unreadable according  the check for the moment (and it dares to tell above it can be false positives :thud: :thud: :thud: )
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 10:28:42 AM
Did it tell you which sectors were unreadable?  It is normal for the time to go up as the scan continues.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 03, 2017, 10:29:03 AM
It's just teh first step, and now it indicates 1h31mn05 :OMG:
After, I know it can be faster suddenly

 :doc:
I have 3 segments unreadable according  the check for the moment (and it dares to tell above it can be false positives :thud: :thud: :thud: )
I know, it takes a lot of patience. Apparently there's really something amiss with that disk, and at any dubious read attempt the software keeps trying to read that sector over and over for a number of times before declaring it faulty, which takes plenty of time.

The positive side is that once a sector is marked wrong it won't ever be used, so your new system will reside on the healthy part of the HD.
The less encouraging side is that we can never be sure that the problem won't expand in the future: once the disk hardware begins going nuts it will hardly stop.

How large is your HD? I still have a healthy unused 1TB. If only we could think of a way... after all Christmas is near enough, right? :winks:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 10:41:14 AM
Did it tell you which sectors were unreadable?  It is normal for the time to go up as the scan continues.
Yes, it talks for the moment of 4 sectors: 192508-509-510-511.
It's now checking 192572 on 635648. That difference explains the estimation growing I guess.

My HD on computer is 750 GO, but only 715 GO when I bought, rest was used by the system and stuff installed with it.
The day where it stopped to work, it stayed free around 550Go.

I have to check a destocking in a shop with furnitures and electronics. They stop to the end of the next week. I don't know if I'll find something for a cheap price.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 10:48:26 AM
Those sector numbers are high enough so the drive may be usable if the sectors are marked unavailable as Chiron suggested. 

I do agree with him that this is not encouraging for its long term use.

You were about 30% done in an hour if I'm reading your post correctly.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 10:51:02 AM
You wrote just before I come to give news. Suddenly system has accelerate, then it's done!
I hadn't time to read what it said before to be back at teh screen to check computer.

Yes, it stayed to step 30% - total 10% during a long time. Then pouf! End!

Seems it has 4 sectors only corrupted.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 10:53:19 AM
Great news!  Glad it wasn't three hours!!!!!!!!!!

On to the restore of the system?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 10:56:56 AM
I clicked on "previous" to be back at the restauration thing.
So I guess it will be without saving files because of corruption. It's pretty sure DS4 is partially inside those sectors. Maybe something else too, even if I found nothing else potentially corrupted for programs I installed.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 10:59:02 AM
I think something else is wrong besides DS if the machine won't boot.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 03, 2017, 11:11:38 AM
I think something else is wrong besides DS if the machine won't boot.
Probably some essential system module was on one of the faulty sectors. I'm sure someone in the world knows exactly where each piece of software/data is physically stored on disk, but that's certainly not me... :sad:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 11:15:14 AM
Before to continue the restauration, it asks to me to remove all external peripherical devices. That wants to say I must 'tear off' the bootable USB? :panic:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 03, 2017, 11:23:13 AM
Before to continue the restauration, it asks to me to remove all external peripherical devices. That wants to say I must 'tear off' the bootable USB? :panic:
I think so: the necessary software should now be all in the computer RAM thus the USB shouldn't be needed anymore. If or when it will be needed again the PC will probably prompt you to insert it.

If it tells you to remove the USB that should mean (if common sense serves) that there are no open files on it - so I'd advise you to cross your fingers and pull it out.

This is most likely because the system needs to reboot and if you leave the USB in it would reboot from there.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 11:25:31 AM
Ok, I crossed also toes :psycho:
Here we go! He is generous to estimate first step to only 6 minutes.

**********
Woh, first step is fast really. Time I end to write, it was ended.
It's to step 3, end in 30 minutes maybe.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on November 03, 2017, 11:27:18 AM
I would say NO on the bootable.  What they are saying is anything connected to the laptop such as printers, screens, etc.....
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on November 03, 2017, 11:28:17 AM
Or Not  LOLOL.....Seems to be going good so I'll shut up for now....
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 11:28:24 AM
 :explode:  too late!
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 11:29:23 AM
Or Not  LOLOL.....Seems to be going good so I'll shut up for now....
Anyway, I'll see at the end if it was a good thing or not.
Step 3 is to 14%.  End in 26 minutes.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 11:32:22 AM
Time for a walk, then.   :java:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 11:33:43 AM
If it's your break, yeah profite well :yes:
And  :ty01: to all :mwah:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 11:51:31 AM
 :doc: It was to 91%, estimation time 3minutes. Then

Failed HP recovery Manager. Error code = 0xEFFFFF08  :explode:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 12:00:32 PM
Well, I'll try to do with bootable USB. I found a topic on hp (https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/Recovery-manager-failed-Error-code-0xEFFFFF08/td-p/5252550) where somebody has to try with an USB.
I have just to change the USB port I use often.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 12:00:34 PM
Sadly, that probably means that the recovery partition itself has an error in it.

Or at least that's what I get from

HP forum post on 0xEFFFFF08 (https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/Recovery-manager-failed-Error-code-0xEFFFFF08/td-p/5252550)
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on November 03, 2017, 12:02:21 PM
Error Code 0xEFFFFF08 is an HP Error Code (not a Microsoft Error Code).  It, simply, means that you have to use a different USB port on your computer!  Using the Recovery Manager requires that you use a particular USB port on your computer.  Try the different
USB ports on your computer.  HP recommends starting with a USB port on the LEFT SIDE!
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 12:02:33 PM
If your laptop has a sticker on it with the W8.1 serial number, you can follow post #2 in that URL and download a legal copy of W8.1 for you to install to a USB and then try a reinstall.  Unfortunately, the next step is to download the HP drivers for your laptop and install them as well.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 12:05:05 PM
I had sticker for Vista. No sticker for W8 (nor the W10).

I'll try the left side of computer. I can't make a mistake, I have only 1 port at the left  :(ROFLMAO:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 12:05:50 PM
Error Code 0xEFFFFF08 is an HP Error Code (not a Microsoft Error Code).  It, simply, means that you have to use a different USB port on your computer!  Using the Recovery Manager requires that you use a particular USB port on your computer.  Try the different
USB ports on your computer.  HP recommends starting with a USB port on the LEFT SIDE!

I don't believe she's using a USB for this.  She was trying to use the recovery partition on the hard disk.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 12:07:03 PM
Ah the chaos!   :dk2: :reluctant: :dualknight:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on November 03, 2017, 12:08:04 PM
Ahhhh......makes sense then.  That's what I get for just jumping in and not reading all LOLOL.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 12:13:42 PM
I don't believe she's using a USB for this.  She was trying to use the recovery partition on the hard disk.
Yes, I removed the USB (bootable windows) just before to start, like they asked. This time, USB is on the computer. I'll see in 30 minutes maybe.
It seems a lot of people have this error. I even found a woman with an issue on a laptop of 26 months... same age than mine.
The difference with me, it's she made at the beginning a key with everything of her system, to be her "recovery D", if the HP recovery in her laptop had an issue. And guess what? Even her USB couldn't do the job  :coffee3:
Of course, moderator of HP said her she could always pay to obtain their recovery disks  :coffee3:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 12:19:39 PM
If your laptop has a sticker on it with the W8.1 serial number, you can follow post #2 in that URL and download a legal copy of W8.1 for you to install to a USB and then try a reinstall.  Unfortunately, the next step is to download the HP drivers for your laptop and install them as well.

I was showing my inexperience here.  Apparently, after Windows 7, the serial number for machines is stored in the "BIOS".  So, it MIGHT work to get the generic Windows 8.1 installer from Microsoft, put it on a USB stick and do the installation without having to find a key.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on November 03, 2017, 12:22:50 PM

that's why I stopped helping lol
we can all DO IT ...........but maybe not the same way  :(ROFLMAO:


Aelin you did run a disk check proggy on hard drive ??
or at least look at the "smart" data (if its turned on ) that can give clues to major disk problems


would hate to see you wasting lots of time on a failing hard drive
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 12:28:35 PM
I was showing my inexperience here.  Apparently, after Windows 7, the serial number for machines is stored in the "BIOS".  So, it MIGHT work to get the generic Windows 8.1 installer from Microsoft, put it on a USB stick and do the installation without having to find a key.
I copied a lot of codes in the BIOS, but I don't know if really I took the good.

I checked the hard drive yes, manually for a part. And today HP made the job.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 12:38:15 PM
91% failed again.

So I'm back to the beginning, to options inside Troubleshoot.
Just above HP Manager I have "reinitialize your PC". And again above, "actualize your PC". Must I try one of them?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 12:48:29 PM
I don't believe either of them are going to work.  It sounds like the hard disk has some problem and the scan did not hide the problem, so we keep hitting it.

Perhaps some of the others have something to suggest.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 03, 2017, 12:56:29 PM
Sorry, I've been away for some minutes browsing for possible solutions. Here are the outcomes:

- Apparently M$ allows to download whatever is required to prepare an USB installer (from scratch) free of charge, but to run it one needs the key.
- Keys are available on the web, legally or less legally. However Aelin purchased her computer legally and complete with Win8.1, thus she has a right to have its key as well.
- Then I double checked and yes, I have here a free healthy unused 1TB SATA HD she can have in exchange for all her free stuff I've downloaded so far :smile:
- A friend of mine I'm going to see next week should be in France before the end of November and, if asked kindly enough, could possibly mail a tiny parcel from inside France.

How does it look like?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: heddheld on November 03, 2017, 01:07:25 PM

https://www.lifewire.com/free-hard-drive-testing-programs-2626183


is a list of drive check soft (free)........I dunno which you tried lol
some disk makers have low level format options that can "fix" some errors
by hiding them
I know Seagate and Maxtor have them


but any repair is just a temp measure ............even if you get it working will still need to swop drive sooner rather then later


any damage to the platters will only get worse in time
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 03:07:06 PM
I'm looking to actualize computer. I know I had this option available the first time I saw tools thanks to the bootable USB.
But now, I have a message "the reader where Windows is installed is locked. Unlock the reader, then try again".  :ummm: I never locked that thing for what I know.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 03:18:04 PM
That sounds like this problem:

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/quot-The-drive-where-windows-is-installed-is-locked-Unlock/td-p/4660110 (https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/quot-The-drive-where-windows-is-installed-is-locked-Unlock/td-p/4660110)

which is back to the reinstall Windows problem.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 03:27:04 PM
I found a topic in French with somebody proposing to use the "invit command".
http://www.commentcamarche.net/forum/affich-28217024-impossible-de-reparer-windows-8
I never used that of my life - or maybe it was that on the old computers of 80's to high school?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 03:37:49 PM
Those directions require that you be able to reach the command line.  When you start the recovery program, does it have an Advanced Options?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 03:40:42 PM
Sorry, link was more for myself to don't lose it. The person talked to:

- write diskpart and click Enter
list volume and click Enter

A tab appears and a letter must indicate the OS

bcdboot c:windows /L fr-FR and click Enter

... then different possibilities if the invit above works or not.
I give up with W8 comp for tonight.
But I noticed several people that used Ubuntu had the same issue than me. Ubuntu could lock Windows, do you think???
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 03:42:26 PM
Those directions require that you be able to reach the command line.  When you start the recovery program, does it have an Advanced Options?
Yes I have, thanks to the bootable windows USB.
Contrary to a lot of people I haven't the safe mode option, and another thing like possibilities (I don't remember for the other).
But I have the command line.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 03:57:39 PM
So, when you enter diskpart at the command line, it will open another window.  That window will accept diskpart commands, like "list volume".  We're doing that to determine that the disk is partitioned and already assigned a C drive.

That last command "bcdboot" is re-initializing the drive with a boot record.  This may defeat the lock, but the system is only 91% installed, so the system likely will still not work.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 03, 2017, 06:19:04 PM
:thud:
Do you think a ISO image of W8.1 can work in this case?

(don't be hurried to answer if you are always on forum, I'll be back tomorrow now. That leaves time for your own life  :mwah: )
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 03, 2017, 07:00:33 PM
I think that the ISO image written to a USB key would allow you to try to install W8.1.  Then installing drivers would be required, such as the video and sound to get it to work. 

Since there was trouble installing from the recovery partition, there's at least a 50% chance that the W8.1 ISO install will fail at the same point in the same way. 
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 04, 2017, 09:54:36 AM
Just before to come on forum, I tested a CHKSDK command (sorry if I made dislexia). Is it logical there the machine thinks the hard disk hasn't issue? On any used sector?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 04, 2017, 10:09:09 AM
CHK (=check) DSK(=disk) validates the file system structures.  It sounds more like there's something in the startup that's not right.

That's what that thing we were discussing yesterday  is supposed to fix.

Two things: I'm about to go do the weekly shopping with my wife and daylight saving starts tomorrow in the US.

Good morning!
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 04, 2017, 10:15:36 AM
Hi Sir Knight!
And have a good trip for shopping and everything else :thumb_up:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 04, 2017, 12:41:27 PM
Hi, Aelin.

I have another thing to take care of this afternoon.  Did you get a chance to try the "diskpart" trick?
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 04, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
I tried but a command was never accepted. Don't ask me which, I'm lost in numbers, letters and a lot of stuff I read today.
I need a break tonight. Maybe I try to work on a render for contest, don't know yet. But I think it will be the rest of weekend without W8 around. And Monday I'm not here until the night.

So profit well of the rest of weekend  :madfun:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on November 05, 2017, 09:31:26 AM
You're a lot more patient then I am Aelin.   By now I'd be teaching that laptop how to FLY out the window..... :thud:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 05, 2017, 10:28:50 AM
Flying against a wall or end under a hammer are 2 solutions I keep in last resort :psycho:
But if I want a little chance in more to do renders, I must continue. One day.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 06, 2017, 03:39:12 AM
Flying against a wall or end under a hammer are 2 solutions I keep in last resort :psycho:
But if I want a little chance in more to do renders, I must continue. One day.
Gather all your courage, get a screwdriver, extract the hard disk and throw that against the wall (or put it in the microwave, or however make it suffer :winks: ).
The rest of the laptop is innocent, spare its life! :pleeeeez:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 06, 2017, 11:25:42 AM
If I put it in microwave, I lose also the fridge :thud:   :(ROFLMAO:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on November 06, 2017, 12:02:10 PM
 :yeow:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 07, 2017, 09:01:45 AM
End of morning until a part of afternoon and 1 word: ISO  :crazysmile:
W8.1 is alive, even if I was forced to "bidouiller" it (I don't like the "hack" term).

I needed to formate partitions, and yes I know, to lose everything that HP put onto. Only partition I kept was Recovery (even if it looks like damaged, like it refused to do the job) because it contains the Windows OEM.
I had warnings:
- because partitions aren't in the good order
- because for an unknow reason the 'new' format of partition is different than necessary for Windows (GPT in place of M.. something).

But it works!  :happydance:
Maybe it's the last threat to open it by a not sweet manner which decided it :psycho: But I can say it's good to be "at home" now.

I have started to look to bring to date pilotes, but it looks like Windows made a part of job with the reinstallation.

But I have a little trick with "Windows defender". It refuses to leave me enter in options on the configuration pannel. I guess the fight will continue on another level.

 :ty01: guys! Now I cross fingers that W8.1 accepts to play regularly, as longer as the hard disk will accept to work.
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Chiron on November 07, 2017, 09:33:38 AM
I really wish you the best Luck, Aelin, although I already told you what I think of a disk that betrayed you once...

But you know that, thus I'm sure you'll backup your most important files as often as possible - it's like an insurance: you keep paying (in this case with your valuable time) and hope you'll never need to cash. But in case something goes wrong you're much better off :smile:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: mtdana on November 07, 2017, 10:03:54 AM
That is great new!  :knightcheer2: I hope it means you are back to rendering soon!!! :grpwave:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: rrkknight3 on November 07, 2017, 05:11:37 PM
This is great news, Aelin.  Glad to hear that your tilt with the HP dragon was successful.   :winks:

 :Hi5: :feelgood:
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: Aelin on November 08, 2017, 06:55:25 AM
Thanks guys!
HP dragon, that sounds good lol
Title: Re: Computer with W8.1 out
Post by: thelufias on November 08, 2017, 10:36:00 AM
That's awesome Aelin...Lesson of the day......persistence pays off in the end :mwah: