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Author Topic: Bigfoot?  (Read 2658 times)

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Offline ArtByMivan

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2014, 01:42:55 PM »
Enjoyed your response Ray. If you really want to get good and furiously mad read what happened to the Catar Christians at the behest of the pope at the time in the 14th century. All in the name of property acquisition was that atrocity.

Offline sidherose

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2014, 02:39:54 PM »
I know all about the 'Albigensian Crusade', the Cathars and Montsegur, etc. I'm afraid. :( Some of those people are my ancestors - the lords and ladies of Foix. When I was about 35 years old, I was 'accosted' by a vision one day. I saw a young girl and her father running through the woods at night (which are I later discovered through a friend that now lives in Montsegur, on the side of the pog where the fortress sits). They were terrified. And then I saw a group of knights with torches on horseback, and I 'heard' one word 'Albigensians'. That was it. It was like the literal 'bolt out of the blue', and maybe only lasted for about 10-15 seconds. I had absolutely NO idea what it was about at that time. I didn't learn until about 20+ years later when I met this friend in England. I didn't even know until two years ago I was related to these people, and found out when I researched my family tree on Ancestry.com.

I'd go on about other things I learned while researching all of that, but.... Just go to the link below and read the italicized stuff at the top. This is a Jesuit site, so what it's saying here is a matter of fact. You can say what you will about the Jesuits, but they are scholars and they know their stuff.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/donatconst.asp 

Offline ArtByMivan

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2014, 03:54:46 PM »
Checking it out. Thanks. Any chance I can convert you into a cryptozoologist?

Offline sidherose

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2014, 04:54:44 PM »
Checking it out. Thanks. Any chance I can convert you into a cryptozoologist?

Lol...everything's tied together, you know. Probably not but if it crosses my path in looking at other things, then yeah I'll look into it. I like to have the big picture. Well, as big as you can get. Trouble is, the more you learn, the more you know you don't know.

Offline AmirA

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2014, 11:42:37 PM »
Interesting feedback  :woohoo:
~ A freak like me, just needs infinity! ~

Offline sidherose

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 01:24:00 AM »
All in the name of property acquisition was that atrocity.

It was about 'property acquisition' but it's a little more complicated than that. Raymond VI de Toulouse and his extended family (the de Foix, and Trencavels) had been the lords of Foix, Beziers, Carcassone and Toulouse for several generations and they weren't about to cede it over to Louis VII and have Occitania become part of papal France under Louis' rule.

Raymond was excommunicated twice by the Pope and subsequently both were lifted. The first time was for the murder of the Papal Legate Pierre de Castelnau. Raymond didn't participate but those in his service did, so he was responsible in that respect, because they really didn't know who of his men did it. If you get into the details of it all, Innocent III sending Pierre de Castelnau in to mediate between Raymond and Hugh de Baux was kind of like offering him up as 'collateral damage'. His death is what started the Albigensian Crusade.

After Simon de Monfort besieged Beziers and captured Carcassone, their lands were taken away and Raymond was excommunicated again. Besides all of this, the Church saw Catharism as a heresy and possibly a threat to Catholicism and so it became an excuse to wipe them all off the face of the earth...because that's what they did. Raymond tried everything he could but he and the other lords were not going to give in without fighting back and that pretty much sealed their fate.

Offline Jherrith

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 05:29:35 AM »
Quite fascinating reading here and we do love the old history. Technically I like ancient as in BC but this has been a fascinating read will have to look at the links when I have more time to peruse. Had class last night and tis back to work I go so this is on my list to follow up on.

Don't recall distinctly having read Michner I do recall a lot of Clavell though, and there were several other volumes that definitely contradicted the rubbish I learned in school to the point of doing some follow up to be informed enough to decide who was wearing the rose colored glasses.
"But who is stronger, truly, I asked myself, he who continues to wound and bleed himself to please others, or he who refuses any longer to do so?"

Fighting Slave of Gor by John Norman

Offline sidherose

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 01:18:04 PM »
Technically I like ancient as in BC...

Me too. You look back to BC and you see we haven't changed a lot. We just have more stuff to fight over.

I think I read a couple of Clavel's novels too. Pretty sure I at least read Shogun.

Offline ArtByMivan

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 05:08:35 PM »
My simplistic understanding of the slaughter of both the Knights Templar and the Catars was the fundamental hatred of women by the church. The Catar women held equal weight along their males and we know the Knights venerated Mary. You can easily identify Templar constructions by the shape of the keystones. That is they are shaped to resemble a vagina. If they would engage in slaughter of women and children by putting them to the sword, burning them alive and throwing them from cliffs or as in the torture of the Templars then what is to prevent the reoccurrence?

Offline sidherose

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 06:58:53 PM »
My simplistic understanding of the slaughter of both the Knights Templar and the Catars was the fundamental hatred of women by the church. The Catar women held equal weight along their males and we know the Knights venerated Mary. You can easily identify Templar constructions by the shape of the keystones. That is they are shaped to resemble a vagina. If they would engage in slaughter of women and children by putting them to the sword, burning them alive and throwing them from cliffs or as in the torture of the Templars then what is to prevent the reoccurrence?

Yes, it is true that the Knights Templar venerated the Divine Feminine and it is rumored, 'Baphomet' the Sabbatical Goat. It is also true that the Cathar women were held as equal with the men. However (and don't be offended please), that is a very simplistic view in that it was only a small part of the reasons the Church went after both groups. The Knights were charged with 'heresy' based partially upon this, and a myriad of related supposed practices. But, you really have to look at the whole of the history between the Church and the Frankish kings from the Merovingians, the Carolingians, and Capetian dynasty, as well as the major houses of the Franks like the Angevins. The French crown which held only the northern part of France wanted a united France and to consolidate their power. They were constantly at war with their neighbors in Navarre and Aragon, as well as the Languedoc, trying to gain control. Much of what they managed to get was through marriage, like to Eleanor of Aquitaine, Blanche de Castile, etc. who were really very powerful women themselves. Bottom line is, they wanted to control it all. The Louies and Phillips were Capets and they were ambitious to gain power and influence.

And the worst of these was Phillip the Fair (IV), who is the one responsible for the progrom against the Knights Templar. To put it plainly, Phillip le Bel was flat broke because he was an extravagant spender and engaged in numerous wars - the least of which was a verbal one with the Pope...which resulted in the Avignon Papacy. Again, the bottom line was, he wanted the Knights Templars' treasury. They were extremely powerful and rich. They invented 'banking' and 'cheques', and 'safety deposit'. Both the Church and the Crown were afraid of their power and influence. If you would, read the Wikipedia page about Phillip IV and you'll see the Knights were not the only ones he went after and confiscated their monies and properties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_the_Fair 'Fair' he was not. Greedy as all get out, he was. As for the Knights - a fine way to treat your 'champions of the Faith' in most all their Crusades in the Holy Lands.

The Church has enough problems these days without instituting witch hunts and inquisitions - and the new Pope is really a pretty cool, down to earth sort of Pope, all things considered. He's very progressive. Unless his successor is his utter anti-thesis, it's not going to come from the Catholic Church. I'd be more concerned about very fundamentalist religious entities than the Church of Rome. No, there really isn't anything to stop it from happening again were those groups to gain any great power.   

Offline ArtByMivan

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 08:09:40 PM »
Thanks for that explanation Ray. I will check out the wikilink but not tonight. Eyelids are growing heavy already.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

Offline sidherose

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 08:23:20 PM »
Thanks for that explanation Ray. I will check out the wikilink but not tonight. Eyelids are growing heavy already.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

You're welcome and sweet dreams to you!

 :kissclock:

Offline AmirA

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Re: Bigfoot?
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2014, 01:21:31 AM »
Wow I just love to see all the info shared. Thanx for the read...  hi5-3:
~ A freak like me, just needs infinity! ~

 

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